forums2draw.netAbout this whole influx of spammy n00bs
p3ndragon (edited Aug 4, 2005)
I think we should develop a new way to moderate everything. With all this drama about the beginner board, I really feel like it's time to take action.
Make more moderators.
Enforce a time limit.
Do something. Please?
I'm not terribly displeased with anything here, but it irks me a little bit. It's also seeing someone like Knockoff get fed up with it and the insuing moronic internet arguments that follow every time someone mentions something about it, though.
My opinion on the entire situation:
-The beginner board does hurt my eyes
-I am tired of the "OMG S0 KAwA11II lololol omg HOW diaid you get tahe difaferent colorsa lol??!!"
-Poppa rules.
-I really hate the people that go "OMG THEY R TRYIN!!! AT 4 YRS OLD U WERNE"T THAT GOOD M I RITE!"
-Neither side is 100% correct about the situation
-I have no idea why this is a list
-It's not really that huge of a problem, and I probably did not need to make this topic.

Make me a moderator please. LoL!
But really, your thoughts? I'm actually not going to be here for the next week, so flame me all you want :)

squee (Aug 4, 2005)
I agree. The spammy n00bs and moronic idiots seem to be reproducing and multiplying like there's no tomorrow and people are getting fed up. There are:
They need dictionaries
Can't even draw a line
They spam up the boards
They think they know everything

Oh, and my favorite, think they are better than everyone else here and think they can run the site.

*shakes head*

Yes, a good solution would be more moderators. I agree fully on your statement.
Zinc (Aug 4, 2005)
"OMG THEY R TRYIN!!! AT 4 YRS OLD U WERNE"T THAT GOOD M I RITE!" and "OMG S0 KAwA11II lololol omg HOW diaid you get tahe difaferent colorsa lol??!!" are already against the rules, so that should be taken care of.
"The beginner board does hurt my eyes." don't look. it's the beginner board. what did you expect?
"Enforce a time limit." that's considerably decent idea, but what's going to stop them from just sitting there and leaving the applet open until enough time passes by?

the number of newcomers is increasing dramatically, so of course the spam rate is going to go up. I'm not so satisfied with the current quality of the beginners board, but there doesn't seem to be a real fair way of moderating the beginner's board. any other ideas? =0P
p3ndragon (Aug 4, 2005)
Ah! Your name change confuses me so much.
I don't even know what to call you anymore ;_;
But as for ideas, I guess that's what this topic was for. So other people could make ideas and I could take credit.
Ideas.. More moderators. People who visit frequently and who care passionately.
squee (Aug 4, 2005)
How about like those other oekaki sites where you apply but you send a link to one of your past or resent pictures. The mods or whoever takes a look and if they like what they see, they allow them on the site?

I donno. It's a suggestion though.

The beginner board has rules too, and scribbling and drawing a two second picture is against them. IF they really want to practice they should practice on paper or take screenshots to help improve. It's not that hard, but half of them don't seem to understand. They take a circle, slap on a face, add color and they call it a finished picture. =/
quintessence (Aug 4, 2005)
I haven't really noticed a new influx of noobs... it's sort of an ongoing thing. People just get more angry about it at times. Every site has its share of noobs, intensely annoying as it may be. We try to put out the worst fires and at least keep the intermediate board nice and tidy, and you can always avoid the beginner board if it induces vomiting.

*moderates about*

squee (edited Aug 4, 2005)

That person, whoever it is, will push me to the brink of myself and I will be forced to take a gun to my head.

It is a good idea to have more mods though.
Gigandas (Aug 4, 2005)
Actually, I think the time limit thing is a good idea. Sure it won't stop everyone from waiting thrity minutes to pass by, but it'll probably reduce the amount of people who'll scribble for under thrity minutes and submitting them. It's kinda like those who want to burn and mass produce a CD sold in stores, but by making the process of mass producing harder, you'll be reducing the amount of people willing to put in the extra effort to get what they want.
Shoebox (edited Aug 4, 2005)
Nuu, don't, I promise I"ll be good ;-;

.. <.< >.>
Oh, not me?

Definitely think we need more mods, and stricter rules with more enforcing. A time limit sounds good to me too, and by time limit of course I mean 'You cannot set this picture to be unhidden.' type of thing, not something to stop one from submitting altogether (Unfinished (hidden) is the greatest creation known to man), but something that stops it from hitting the light of day before it's ready...

Also, big huge bright pink letters on black background emphasizing the 'Just because you drew it doesn't mean you have to submit it.' philosophy.
Naturally one doesn't want to put newer drawers down, but if they just want to test something, or if they're 'just bored', surely they could jsut save the image to their own computer instead of putting it here... I cannot tell you how tired I am of hearing 'This is crap but I Submitted anyway'
If you don't like it, why will Joe Smith? For that matter, when did Joe learn how to smith in the first place? Is that even a profitable profession for Joe? Joe and I need to talk...
15grifficorntears (Aug 4, 2005)
i think we need to monitor the drama crap that takes up the forums nowadays. it's really annoying.
Xodiak (Aug 4, 2005)
By watching some pages of the boards and comparing the past pages with the latest I can say that there is improvement rather than decline in quality. >:)
Cordelia_Pink (Aug 4, 2005)
Lettuce use spyware just in case.
Kloxboy (Aug 4, 2005)
It's good to voice your opinions.

Take note:

I think Marcello knows what's best for this site. He's intelligent enough to make the right changes when needed. He will ask for help from the 2Draw community when he thinks it's appropriate (or so I would hope). As well, it's his site, he can do whatever he wants.

How does some little kid's 5 minute drawing on the Beginner Board make your 2Draw experience so bad?
freefall (Aug 4, 2005)
i agree with cloxboy.

i have been reading these forums quietly for a while now, and i will say this. while inexperienced and careless beginners are slightly irksome, they are not nearly as difficult as big headed 'old-timers' who find their own words and art so exceptional that they feel they can/have the right to run this place.

the fact remains that this is the internet. it is a website. it is not your website. there is no need to rehash these pointless arguments to death. go punch a pillow and then come back and draw. maybe try to remember what it was like to be 13 too. i bet you were a pain to a lot of people. they put up with you.
darkshadow (Aug 4, 2005)
Clox has said it all
also i 110% agree with Xod "there is improvement rather than decline in quality"

yes more mods is a good idea
squee (Aug 4, 2005)
For me it's not the pictures but the whole "OMFG 1337" or whatever it is. It's the people that can't even spell that ticks me off. Plus the people that draw a circle in under 2 minutes and call it finished.

Cloxboy you are right.
Shanghai (edited Aug 4, 2005)
How about this-

Find someone to make maybe 2 or 3 examples of what is "acceptable" as beginner quality work.

Then do that for intermediate and advanced.

(The reason for 2 or 3 is so a few different styles can be presented as examples since sometimes it's hard to judge quality between styles if it doesn't match your own.)

Then take those examples and post them, permanently, (they don't need to be something people can comment on or even have an artist's name attached to them, to avoid it being for personal attention) at the top of each board right under the board description.

I think some people may just not know what is acceptable as the different levels of quality, or may missjudge themselves. Get some clear, easy to see examples and that should eliminate some of those questions of what level something should be at to be where you want it to be.

-also, paintchat.

If there was something that we had, such as paintchat, that people could draw and show other people and would be non-permanent then people who want to scribble would get what they want and people that don't think something should be saved forever and bury artwork that had effort put into it would also not have to see scribbles everytime they look at the beginner board.
Zinc (Aug 4, 2005)
examples? easy. the majority of the drawings on the intermediate board, for example, should already define what is acceptable in the intermediate board. no 2 or 3 pieces can define that alone.

the issue with what folks are carping about is not just the "spam" and the "n00bs." "Spam" and "n00bs" have ALWAYS been around. it's the community's tolerance level that has decreased.

p.s.- I've changed my mind. argue at your own will, but I think the quality of the beginners board is in pretty good shape.
p.p.s.- cloxboy and freefall have said it all, really.
Shanghai (Aug 4, 2005)
I don't really have any answers, just ideas, so I'm not intending to argue about anything. I'm probably not even going to say anything about the boards anymore, since really I just need to focus more on finishing certain pictures.
SneakyWalter (Sep 6, 2005)
We could make an introductory page come up when you register that tells you certain neccessary things so they don't act so much like a noob. I observed people on the site for a while before I joined, so I knew a FEW things. More mods, or maybe more Active mods, is an okay idea, too.
method3 (Sep 6, 2005)
Let me get this straight. In short (to those of you wanting change as opposed to thinking things are in pretty good shape) you want more moderators, stricter rules such as time limits, and examples made of the foolish noobs who may cross a moderator's path in unholy error shouting expletives and yielding nothing but pulpous digital waste? These aren't really moronic internet arguments, they're discussions in which the people who have put some thought into the problem of maintaining this site educate those who haven't thought at length (or at all) about the problem.

While throwing more man hours into moderating the site will certainly keep less spam from coming through, it's a losing battle compared to the number of entries submitted. Introducing too many moderators becomes a problem of consistency in moderation, therefore the list of moderators is kept to a trusted few. Moderating time limits simply isn't a reasonable guage of the ability of the artists, all artists draw at different speeds for different pieces. Thus the guidlines for each board gives flexibility to the artist so that it isn't some hard set rule that one has to keep in mind every time they want to draw. The third point is moot, moderators already crush nubblets underfoot with hardly a moral qualm.

At this point the community should be stepping in and educating newcomers as to what is expected in terms of constructive criticism. If you feel the need to be a total ass to someone because you feel they violated the madeup rules in your head, go ahead and make yourself a total ass.

I am against throwing up example images for two reasons. One is that it doesn't guarantee anything about the quality of submitted work, since comparing two works of art is subjective to the viewer, especially if one of the images being compared was created by the one doing the comparing. How would artists know that the work they create is on par with the examples shown? Secondly, having examples gives the impression that we want a certain board to be a certain style, have certain content, or be limited to the scope of the examples. We can simply solve both of these problems by just generalizing the guideline to all the entries already accepted on the board, while anything glaringly out of place can be taken care of by the moderators.
davincipoppalag (Sep 7, 2005)
The voice of reason speaks.... Thank you method...
SneakyWalter (Sep 7, 2005)
Thank you, Method.

We Could communicate more with the "noobs" of the site so they know more, rather than shunning their unholy stupidity.
xiau (edited Oct 18, 2005)
I completely agree... I mean... All these little 3 minute sketches are getting on my nerves, then if you say anything, other people will say "How can you be so mean they're trying" ... If they really were trying, I would have no problem with it, but I think actually "trying" requires more than 3 minutes of work...
An introductory page would be a good idea. Like, when they're signing up it have the rules and guidelines. The only problem is, alot of people don't read these.
Kenshin (Oct 18, 2005)
They don't really bother me.
Then again, I don't browse this site much.
Just ignore them if you don't like them.
But then again, everything I say is pretty much meaningless :P
JK-Arts (Oct 19, 2005)
I'v just read all of the comments for this message. Honostly i don't see too much wrong with the way this site is being moderate just the other day i saw a noob totally breaking rules. just moments later all his work and his name where removed from the site.
Also about noobs and spamming. That bothers me too but, i think its best to ignor it rather then sounding like a ass.
This is just an idea
The point system could have greater point reductions (spam or pictures identified as spammed pictures could lose like 5 or so points each)
I don't know how that would work but just a thought.
I drew alot on the begginer board mainly just to practice. What i've noticed alot of noobs draw for a comment they pretty much seem to be drewing something to get a reaction or an responce from another person. So i think the best way(well, away) to get rid of these noobs is just to ignor them don't give them a responce or encourage them(Eventually they'll get bored and leave). Also you got to realize that there is alot of people who are under 15. and if you see any potental in these people I think we should help them out ,teach them,show them th ropes ect. Basicaully if we don't like the shape this place is in, then rather flaming we should try to help shape it up.
Nightmare (Oct 19, 2005)
n00bs are everywhere. Just like teh asshats in real life. Get used to it, live with it, and get over yourselves.

Maiko (Oct 19, 2005)
We could make good use of noobs >_> like start a "cook n00bs for world hunger" fund...
so it'll like...end world hunger and get rid of the noobs, yay :D
xiau (Oct 19, 2005)
Good one, Mai! ... Uh, do I count as a noob? e_e;; (hides)
Anyways... I have no problem with ignoring them, I just don't like searching through hundreds of pages to find particular image. And I don't think it's fair the mods should have so much extra work deleting all of this stuff.
Deformed (Oct 19, 2005)
Nightmare you playdarist. Kthxbye is so Hakkai's thing.
Nightmare (Oct 19, 2005)
Actually, 'kthxbai' is used a lot around the intarweb, just not so often on this particular site.

'Cept by Hakkai o' course.
Maiko (Oct 20, 2005)
I like to use "yeahokaybye" X3;
xiau (Oct 20, 2005)
I just say bai-bai >_>;;
Haha, I'm such a nerd.
SneakyWalter (Oct 20, 2005)
How about bye, good-bye or "Catch you on flipside, suckers!"?
xiau (Oct 21, 2005)
I only use it in text messages, I don't say "bai-bai" in real life at school and stuff. I just say "bye"
Besides, "Bai-bai" sounds the same as "Bye-bye", so I guess it doesn't really matter.
Maiko (Oct 21, 2005)
haha usually when I say bye to my friends I use "bye-nyao~~!"
SneakyWalter (Oct 22, 2005)
Well when I was suggesting "bye", I was sugesting correct spelling, but there must always be some exceptions for certain things. Exceptions include (In my opinion) funny, cool, or cute spelling, Not Lazy Spellings.
Maiko (Oct 22, 2005)
but how can you spell "bye" lazily? T_T;

bb? bey? bi?
Noremac (Oct 22, 2005)
go the distance
xiau (Oct 22, 2005)
I'm going to have to try that one... "b." Simple 'nuff.
Either that, or I'll try "Catch you on the flipside, suckers!!" That'd be fun :D
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