You have to read this. Congress is about to try to pass a legislation that makes it legal for anyone to STEAL YOUR ART LEGALLY!

This is just fugged up: Orphan Works

Follow the mans advice, get ahold of your congressman and let your voice be known. This affects EVERYONE!

Let your voice be heard..... SIGN! Legal Art Theft Petition

Screw that noise! I hate art theft. I just went through a long process of getting 6 t-shirts taken down on eBay this week, from 3 different companies, all ripped images of my artwork. Art theft is a serious business on the internet. Thanks for posting this Barb.

God, it's already started. Post this on every site you go to Klox. This time it's our fight.

And yes people, it effects alll of us. Even those outside the States and UK.

The article mentions Flickr as a place where huge numbers of images are posted and it's difficult to control. In the past one of my paintings was uploaded by some random person on Flickr who had also uploaded art from various others. Their account was shut down after enough people complained, but what really irritated me was that like many websites that allow the uploading of images there was an automatic "© whatever-their-username-was" below a painting that I had made and they did not own the copyright to. Simply by uploading those images that person was claiming to own all of them, and if someone hadn't of sent me the link I never would have known my painting had been uploaded at all or that someone else was claiming to own it.

You know what they say about roaches and fleas- for each one you see there's many times more that you don't see. So who knows if that was the only time anything of mine was ever posted somewhere else? I regularly see literally a couple thousand artworks per day on the various artists' sites and image databases I browse and I regularly see the same images on multiple sites everyday. There's no way a person could keep track of or track down each and every image they make on every site on the entire internet.

Unfortunately online petitions are infamous for having zero real world effect. It's sometimes referred to as slacktivism. You feel like you've done something and been part of a movement to change for the better, but all you actually end up doing is writing down your name and then walking away. Nothing really changes or gets done like that. Also, after reading some of those signatures, it's a little embarrassing to see the rampant typos and grammatical errors. Those people won't be taken seriously.

Now I happen to live somewhere that's about a 10 minute drive from stores that sell counterfeit clothing. I know a store that wanted to sell us 2 Gucci purses, normally many hundreds of dollars, for $20 each. There's no one that will stop that, or the shop next to it that sells shirts with logos from various companies and sports teams that I'm sure doesn't pay royalties on any of that. Now here's the difference between clothes and artists- Clothing companies like Gucci can afford to enforce their copyrights while artists can't. But if even a company who can afford to protect their products is still losing to counterfeiters then what chance do artists have?

Everyone who lives in the US should write to their congressmen and senators and raise holy hell. This is just another example of big money getting what they want at the expense of our rights. I don't sell photos or artwork, but there are many who make their living from selling art and writing and many other things they have created. Under this bill, unless it was registered with the designated copyright keepers, it would be fair game for anyone to use, or sell it. I could sell the Mona Lisa, or War and Peace, or Saving Private Ryan or anything that's out there if it wasn't on those registries. Let your representatives know that you didn't elect them to legalize the theft of people's hard work. Stopping the passage of this bill may not protect you from having your work stolen, but at least you will still have the legal remedies now in place to get something from it.

That's seriously fucked up.
It's not even logical. I don't understand why somebody would even come up with this.
After reading that I don't really want to post or draw art online anymore, but the problem is that's the only way people see it. I think you should be able to share your art without fear of having your hard work stolen and copied. This is sick.

There is an interview with Brad Holland on the last page, he covers the consequences of the Orphan Works bill: Holland Interview (for those who didn't already listen).

Also read this LiveJournal entry (pay no mind to her condescending remarks): Six Misconceptions About Orphaned Works

legalize art theft? what the fuck gives them any right?
argh, you know, if they steal it, then atleast make them cite it you know?
but you shouldnt steal in the first place. its like those bootleg movie commercials "you wouldnt steal a tv"

I was just about to post that livejournal link, Klox. I would definitely recommend anyone who hasn't read it yet to do so.

A lot of the talk about this Act has been blown out of proportion and it's been made to seem a lot worse than it really is. This certainly doesn't mean it's a good thing, though.

Yea, I would like to hear someone argue the other side.

If the situation was exactly how the original article stated and the facts were sound, artists would indeed be in trouble and it would be difficult to argue otherwise (that's the only battle I care to recognize). Fortunately, this is not the case, the author of the original article took many liberties with the information he received about the bill (obviously because the bill doesn't even exist). Still, the information is a little gray on both sides right now. For those of you who are not familiar with Brad Holland, he's a very well known and respected illustrator, I don't take his opinions on the situation lightly.

Yes, I did more research (thanks to a link given on DA called divBy0) who actually posted the very bill in question and I can see now the original article left out a loooot of ommisions, mainly waht the Orphan Works bill is about. Mainly, from what I can see, it's more about determining if some works still have a copyright (which can be by someone who dissapeered or didn't re-regiser, to something old that was apllied for years ago, or the owner not being able to be found). It seems it's to help protect people who want to use thes works (for instance schools or libraries) to do so without having to go through all the laws and red tape. More research needs to be done. Here's the link:

Orphan Works

For my part I'm sorry I jumped the gun. This is what happens when you don't have all the facts. I still believe however that in the wrong hands this bill can be used to undermine your rights to your work. It still needs looking into.

It's amazing how this article is being posted all over, even though the bill doesn't exist, and even if it did, it most likely would never pass. It's nice to see so many artists uniting and participating in this grand discussion. The up side of this hysteria is it brings important issues to the table that some artists might have not been aware of until now.

Thats the internet for ya.

In case people here are interested and haven't read any of this yet, this live journal seems to have an interesting counter-point against the article originally posted in this thread. 6 reasons not to be worried about orphan works even if such a bill were to exist.

Shanghai: I already posted that link (read the -whole- thread) but it's not all that great anyway because that person is a pretentious jerk. I recommend realitysquared's DA Journal, it has straight forward answers and it's far less condescending.

I did read the whole thread, I just missed that link.

so from what I
read.it says that the goverment is thinkin of that law,yeah?leagalizing art theft.but how can they even talk about a thing like that i mean did they thought of all the artists?!if it would happen what would be the point in doing anything with art.
i believe that art theft should be taken as seriously as any other theft like car theft or anything like that!
I mean if it wouldn't be from us the artists the world would be boring...very boring!!!
and if there is companies steeling other peoples works i think they should be shut down or they would have to pay money to the artist that made the peace of art.

I think this is a valid concern, but the article is poorly written. It's more like a rant than anything, full of opinion without substantiation. I kept reading and hoped the author would calm down and be more articulate, addressing the issue point by point and was mostly disappointed. Kind of lost respect for the guy by the end, I don't like yelling and feet stomping to make a point.

Disclaimer: I think this is a valid concern, but the delivery was poop in this case. I am not at all for this legislation, and I fear for your rights. (I'm Canadian. Phew!)

Honestly, people REALLY need to look at both sides of things. This legislation is supposed to be about 'orphan works' only, and if there isn't, well, there is something seriously wrong with a bunch of American legalese-fluent people who shouldn't have been given a job in the first place. Orphan works, pretty much means works where the artist is really hard to find. This legislation wouldn't make worse what is already happening, such as the theft of popular artists in countries they don't live in, for instance.

lol in this website, never expect these people to look at 2 sides of an arguement, they look at one, enforce it, and the others follow, common ignorance.

that's bullshit twit, there are many differing opinions here

Twit, you are part of this website. Saying this, it means you are also somebody who doesn't look at 2 sides of an opinion. That doesn't feel right, does it?! I'm with Lori, it was a BS assumption.

i found a new and better drawing website finally, i don't have to put up with you bitter, mean, ignorant and old people, in some cases even perverted (that means you axil,...and flubbles)

then why are you here?

actually, im not lol i came here for the sake of getting a fulfilling last laugh, and ill be stopping by to see your undoughtedly retarded new comebacks you have for my comments, and get a good laugh outta that too.

ok but next time, don't make the word doubt look so much like doughnut

oh you had nothing better to say than critisize my spelling?? you must be jokeing, your all incredibly more ignorant than i realized. you ever noticed that its only adults here, no kids like me?? thats cause all you knuckleheads drive them away. here is axil the big fat fool insulting people's artwork that isnt as good as his but made the mistake of putting it in advansed. here is axil the unfunny clown drawing porn and not putting it under 18+ yet he's STILL not booted outta here. some of you people flat out disgust me. you live in your own little world on 2draw.net, rude, often only have stupid things to say.

and after i say this website is full of ignorant fools and perverts, the best thing you can come up with to defend your case is, " don't make the word doubt look so much like doughnut"??
ridiculous.
incredible, the utter lack of sensibility
the relentless flood of puuure stupidity.

yes that's all I have to say but you certainly seem to have quite a bit more to say don't you? why come here looking for it when you can't stand it?

why are you acting like you dont know why im still talking? im gonna pull out everything i've noticed and disliked about this site and you people for all this while, lol ofcourse i wont just walk away that easily.

now lori, answer this, do you approve of axil drawing porn and not putting it under 18+ on purpose? if not why don't you say anything at him? if so, then that makes you ignorant.

you know fully well what im saying makes sense, and yet you try to avoid the point of my entire rant by targeting minisquel areas that were odd to you, like spelling, or how i phrased something, or me saying im leaveing but still here talking.

if none of you wont get off your butts and give that seth mcfarlen wannabe, axil, a taste of his own medicine, i will.

Gosh! I'm really in for it now, eh?

you sicken me......

Yeah, and?

yeah, you sicken me, what else is there to say?

Be sickened then, I guess. No skin off my nose.

your just messed up in the head, you do wrong things on purpose, you constantly believe you can just get away with it? sooner or later your gonna get kicked off. ill be watching till you do. you insult people that didnt know the rules and put thier beginner drawing in advanced by accident, you draw porn and make it for everyone on purpose and admit to it as well. your just an annoyance and you're the one that keeps driving people away. no wonder this site has such an incrredibly low number of active members, meanwhile its such a popular site.

I know, it's just awful isn't it?

shame on you axil, you didn't have to make the kid cry.

fag

calm down. i know you thought the entire world was all good and pure like the ones in barbie movies, but it just isn't like that. still, throwing a tantrum isn't gonna do anything.

who the hell asked you?

and tell me how many times doing nothing about a problem got it solved. your infering that i think everything is supposed to be perfect and i'm not about to deal with that bull. this is my way of letting stuff out of my head, ya like it? good for you, you dont? thats too bad. this by it self is ineffective, but the fact that he knows i think hes a pervert, ignorant fool, and comedian wannabe, only calms me down more.

you sound like one of those people that think they know everything, and know how life works and how things work.No,... no one knows, and your being foolish talking as you do.

well, maybe drawing is axil's way of letting stuff out of his head. ya like it? good for you. you don't? well too bad.

and basing all of your attacks on me on the assumption that i think i know everything sounds much more ignorant than axil. maybe you should take a nap to get rid of that crankiness.

no one was even talking to you hiro. and your much dumber than i thought if you cant tell axil does what he does for the sake of makeing others angry. and no that's not an assumption, he admitted it himself. your full of crap im focusing my attacks on you cause you added your own defending axil, now i can tell you know what he does is wrong, but if you dont approove of my methods of pointing that out, then be quiet. you had to just add your own, defending a man that obviously gets pleasure from someone else's frustration. as far as im concerened you have no reason to be saying anything at this point.

bottom line, your defending someone you KNOW has done wrong, your even more ignorant, than you claim ME to be.

Twit: You wan't something to be pissed off about.

oh ofcourse axil that makes perfect sense, and the fact that you guessed on that and have no idea wether that's true or not even makes it more logical and true, bravo -_-

YOUNG MAN, HAVE YOU FINISHED YOUR PAPER!?

shut the hell up old man

"shut the hell up old man"

That seems to be the mantra for every generation, at least in the beginning.

twit, this is a forum. i can post even if noone was talking to me.

and you just missed my point. i said, don't base your attacks on the assumption that i think i know everything. and there you go again, assuming that i think what axil is doing is wrong. you're always jumping to rash conclusions.
i do know that what axil is doing, and i allow the moderately graphic images because i know they're either jokes or his views that really doesn't affect me.

but, of course, if the drawings are too much for you, feel free to draw at the fabulous new drawing site you found finally.

I heard about this before. Theres like a whole movement about taking more than just ownership of our work. its about our right being taken away. i'm so glad obama won! hopefully he'll be able to reverse some of the damage

Snow Child, Like this is high on Obama's list of things to do! He will be too busy "stealing" money from people who work hard to make it and giving it to those people who don't work. You must be a happy little socialist now.

jpjp1052: If snow child is a socialist for making that comment, then that would make you an ignorant fucktard. See, I can make baseless, unsubstantiated claims too, although, I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one. :D

Obama's a socialist.

Klox, If snow child is happy that Obama won, then I would (rightly so) assume that she is happy because she supports his socialistic ideas (redistribution of wealth for one), which would make her a socialist. Why do libs & (now) socialists get so upset when someone calls them that. I have to assume from your reaction (over-reaction) to my commment that you are one also.

jpjp1052: Merely calling someone a socialist doesn't make them one but you've proven to me that you are indeed an ignorant fucktard.

Klox, takes one to know one (and you seem to know a lot of them).

jpjp1052: No, it doesn't always "take one to know one", certainly not in this case. When you talk shit about people in this thread who weren't even arguing with you or trying to antagonize you in anyway, you deserve to be called on it. So yeah, fuck you.

This thread makes me sad and therefore deserves a sad face.

):

Klox, As HirodaZero had to inform Twit, "this is a forum, I can post even if no one was talking to me". Also, you made comments when no one was talking to you, so you are violating your own rule (typical). Do you know any words that are more than 4 letters? It seems that 4-letter words are all that you use. Oh, I forgot, that's what libs do. When they can't discuss a topic intelligently, they just cry & whine & curse at everyone until they get their way.

Twit youve seriously got a lot of growing up to do , holding grudges like you do,The whole thing stems from axil drawing cartoons of obama, and youve been crying like a big girl ever since.If thats all you have to worry about, youve got a really easy life.For example , you dont see klox throwing his toys around in despair, and he doesn't agree with axils views on obama either, thats because they can stay friends and be all grown up about it. And by the way that will i am song its a new day is gayer than elton johns christmas tree lights!!

no no, you got it all wrong, its not because he doesnt support obama, its cause it's almost like he does whatever he likes (not the political comics) and pretty much gets away with it. like im sure you've heard me say a billion times, he drew porn and released it in the wrong rateing on purpose countless times. that is what i really didn't like. I've seen his comments on some drawings that were put in advanced but he didnt think it was advanced, their just rude and uncalled for. yeah sure, your gonna tell me not everyone in life is some nice little saint. but this website has rules does it not? he doesn't make this a very welcomeing place. yeah, me complaining all day didnt solve a thing, and i didnt expect it to, i was trying to bring it to someones attention, apparantly, you people already know what he does and find no fault with it. this had nothing to do with obama, it had to do with axil, A, being disrespectful to those who most likely didnt know the rules and put an intermediate drawing in advanced, and B, drawing porn with out giving it the right rateing. im not trying to sound like a whining baby here, but sitting here and watching it is worse than complaining.

It clearly states that you should spend atleast 2 hours on an advanced drawing, and the people axil comment on dont.He's actually doing people who take the time and produce something worthwhile for the advanced board a service, because there works stays on the board for longer, which is why they have these rules in place in the first place.Your talking through your ass crack dude, we both know that it all boils down to axil drawing obama cartoons you took a disliking to.Let the moderaters do there job, if they think a drawing needs an adult rating on it , they will place one on it, and if they think axils stepping out of line they will tell him so.Its not your site you dont have a say how it should or shouldnt be run , if you dont like how they do shit here, you can leave.I dont see anybody else complaining about axil or me being perverts, it seems to me your speaking on everybody elses regard.Your not getting anywhere with this argument your just polishing a turd, if i was you i'd just be quiet and stop making yourself look foolish.Anyway im going bed :P Laters

"Polishing a turd" I wish I could add rolling around smileys to my comment.

That should be the next contest "Gleaming the Turd"

I think you're outta line jpjp

jpjp1052: You DESERVED IT, snow child DID NOT. That's the difference. I didn't break any rules. Got it?

For the sake of others and the fact you obviously -just- want to argue, I suggest you memo me from here on in about this issue. Arguing like this isn't benefiting anyone or working towards any resolution.

Wait..what? "Deserved" it?

This:

"Snow Child, Like this is high on Obama's list of things to do! He will be too busy "stealing" money from people who work hard to make it and giving it to those people who don't work. You must be a happy little socialist now."

Isn't vicious or aggressive.

However, your response,

"If snow child is a socialist for making that comment, then that would make you an ignorant fucktard. See, I can make baseless, unsubstantiated claims too, although, I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one.",

is totally undeserved, vicious and aggressive.

"You DESERVED IT" Give me a fucking break.

No breaks buddy, it was deserved. :D

Alright, I said what I think and we disagree. I'd still drink a beer with ya.

For the record, I can be friends with libs, too (I just wouldn't want my daughter to marry one).

"He will be too busy "stealing" money from people who work hard to make it and giving it to those people who don't work."

I just wanted to say here, who says that the middle class doesn't work hard to get by? Just because you're rich, doesn't necessarily mean you work hard (or harder) for it. If only everything read as the surface of a situation might suggest, it would be as easy as separating white from black.

I agree with you, gigandas, it is the hard working middle class that will bear the brunt of the BO tax plan. He plans to tax the rich and the corporations. But the rich will just move/hide their money (why do you think the stock market has dropped so much - the rich are pulling their money out). The corporations will either 1) go out of business (loss of jobs), 2) move their business off shore (loss of jobs), or 3) raise their prices on their products/services (an indirect tax on consumers). The middle class is the one that will suffer the most - losing jobs or paying higher prices. So the money he "steals" from the rich will really be paid by the hard working middle class.

I like those big green seedless grapes.

twit is seedless. Do you like him?

What's a twit

This forum is so old, but I just wanted to comment because it cheered me up and made me laugh. Some people (like twit for instance) really are idiots xD

Wow, this is such an amazing thread. I agree heartily with you all and I am an expert!!!

Aaah.. so is this bill no longer going to be in effect, or do we still need to take action against it?

An expert at bull shitting!

Lmao, good one flubs.

can they steal works out of the usa? O_o <------*slow*

I think on this site, we should at least be able to put a "watermark" so to speak on our pieces.. so that takes away from the art so it might not be so attractive to someone who just wants to right click and save the image and do whatever they want with it.

I think when you use a public drawing site it just kind of gives some people the idea that your art is up for grabs....and they can do whatever with it...it's really upsetting when some people don't even have enough imagination to come up with their own ideas....the whole thing sickens me actually...but i love it here...the people are good and the art is good...and I really like drawing here...it's" purdy good purdy good..alright alright."..(I totally just stole that quote from someone here)...:0..lol

Now this is just totally unreasonable
If their gonna pass a crappy law like that,then II refuse to post anymore drawings on the internet
Thats just bogus!
What did us artist do to them.Ill tell you N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!
They think that"ooh, we got power, let just make up something and pass it, noone cares. I aint having that! Grrr!

~Sai

skrew you twit I was never rilley in this argument with axil and you but for some reason I read this disscusion,fight, argument what ever in the hell you want to call it and ive got to say it,s hell of funny and stupid and axil is tha shit and while im at it i,ll tell ya who else is da bomb klox boy davcipapalq,deadly blond archer,sweet cell and marcello O and you twit are the bomb for I would not be having this conversation over the internet via the keyboard with out you thank you twit.man I must be ignarent I forgot to put my name in the melting pot so hear it is PAKS Parker allen kieth simmons.could care less if the hole world heard my name.ps about this art law if it gets past and I do not no both sides of the story all I know is thats not cool give us back are porn twit.

I sometimes think that I am reading a foreign language, and then I realize - it's English.
In PAKS statement above, there are about 20 misspellings and grammatical and punctuation errors. This doesn't even count the ones I skipped to give him the benefit of the doubt that some are what is now becoming acceptable (or at least widely used) "texting" grammar & spelling.
Why should this bother me so, you ask? For the 3 reasons listed below.
1) It's not that I mind typos every now and then because we all make them, and it is obvious that they are typos or someone typing so fast they don't see errors before submitting responses. But when almost every other word is so wrong (misspelled, wrong usage, wrong grammar or punctuation, etc) it indicates that people are just not educated anymore on writing skills.
2) Also, I see this all day in correspondence at my place of employment, by rather high level employees. I am amazed at how some employees will send out an email to "all users" in the organization with blatant grammatical, spelling, and punctuation errors (again discounting the obvious typos).
3) I hear grammatical errors (misuse of verb tenses, pronouns, etc.) on the radio and TV by supposedly educated reporters, journalists, disc jockeys, and commentators. I gave up hope that anyone has speaking standards anymore when I heard a Harvard graduated (famous TV personality) commit grammar errors. I guess even Harvard doesn't expect their graduates to speak or write correct English.
Sorry for this rant, but this grates on my nerves. And, no, I was not an English major in college, but I did have to know correct usage of English to graduate.
Do they not teach proper grammar, etc. in school anymore?

Why is it that every time someone is pointed to errors in writing, they have dyslexia (which is a sadistic word if you do have it).

JpJp, the problem has spread all around the world. My fellow countrymen and -women neglect the language (Dutch) as well.

PAKS, I have learning limitations also, but that just makes me work harder to overcome them, rather than sitting around making excuses ( and I never stoop to using profanity at people with whom I disagree).
I do believe that it is not "how smart are you?", but "how are you smart?". Everyone has strengths and weaknesses (even Einstein capitalized on his strengths and never let his weaknesses hold him back).
It just seems that today, everyone focuses so much on their weaknesses as excuses to not improve themselves because it may be too much work.
It's your life, and you will make of it what you put into it. Good luck to you.

O.o Yeah. I hate it when people spell incorrectly. It gets REALLY annoying. Especially when they are really easy words. Like... like. What is the point in typing "lyk"? To what? Save you a few seconds? In actual texting on the phone I get it. It takes forever to type every single word out, especially if you don't have the keys on your phone. But online, it's different. Not like you can't backspace it and retype it. Better yet, if you have Firefox, right click on the word and click on the correct spelling. That simple really. I think it all comes down to laziness, but whatever.

Agreed Bubbli!

OK, I have this legal paperback for the commercial artist; its the COPYING DEVICES that have messed up the law; here it is" you can circumvent an art copyright by doing this; make a machine copy,, like xerox, et all, copy of the art work. take the copy,and you do some minor ALTERATIoN on the picture. you take the altered copy, do xerox copies of that, and a couple copies after, of this one, are clear of the original's copyright. you can use it." the damn super-copies make it easy and legal to steal . CRAP ON KINKOS AND XEROX!

I don't know how many of you produce art on yer computer, and turn it into work to contribute to your income.(?) But if you pay income tax on the money you get from it, here is how to circumvent that; " if you deliver the art work to your buyer, this way; BY MODEM,you do not pay income tax on the money you make off it. ' TAH-DAH! Wierd, huh? if any of you sell work, and burn it onto disks to sell to your buyer, and you gotta pay income tax off it, you would be advisd to somehow more often arrange to send yer work to buyer BY YOUR MODEM, and not get the income taxed! I did sell a tiny bit of"volunteer" art, made on 'puter, and we were able to email the picture attached ,as attachment, to the buyer, who only needed that, to print greeting cards. i no longer do it, business is bad,that small organization can't really get art to sell much, sigh.IF YOU DO sell a lot of computer art, and get the income taxed, you might look into how you would manage it. might be trickier, ??? worth a shot. hah. ;)

I'm rather annoyed that people just post porno and do not put it under "wraps" ,like the laws here say.But that is a problem of the staff,monitors,letting them get away with doing it. Younger people do like to draw here,so they should have consideration. If you want to do Porno,there are art sites who do it all,all the time,and do not care,that's what they are for. WHY tis' allowed here,with everyone, all ages, hanging out,I do not know. Put the porno here under wraps,for those who are old enough. shit.