Read the rules if you haven't!

Poll: Do you think there should be an Expert Level board?
Expert level is the next step up from advanced, where pictures have a level of finish and detail that sets them apart from the rest. Professional artists would have a hard time finding anything major to validly critisize. Drawings here would most likely be posted far and few between with 5 hours as a reasonable minimum time for this board. You would get wads of space (3MB probably), and access to even larger canvas sizes.

Poll: To theme board or not to theme board?
The theme board died a horrible death and my sad last attempt to revive didn't do a whole lot. So what do you think? Should it just be closed? Do people have new and cool ideas that they might like to see on the theme board? Perhaps simple contests where at the end of a theme, the best picture is chosen and somehow given special honor?

Note: When asking for space, please give a link straight to the image!
Don't know how? Click on My Studio@2draw at the top of the screen, click on your image, and copy the address from your web browser. Paste that into your memo.

Topic: T-Shirts
As has been mentioned many times in the past, one way 2draw could support itself is to sell T-shirts. Since there are a considerably larger number of people on 2draw now, it makes sense to bring this topic up again. Would people be interested in this?
What types of things would you be interested in? Available items
How much should 2draw get for each sale? Base prices
What kinds of designs would you like to see? Original? (Such as cool designs, maybe some with cool phrases related to drawing and whatnot.) Promotional? (Similar to original, but more prominently "advertising" 2draw.) Pictures? (Actual drawings from 2draw, either partially redrawn for higher resolution or used as is.)

More importantly, I do not have a lot of time to devote to a tangential project like this, so a call for designs and ideas is definitely in order. The less extra work I have to do the better. I will most likely make a few designs...

Side-Note: 2draw is a work in progress.
Any suggestions/comments/critisism for improvement and changes are always welcome. There are a number of plans already for new features (intended for the v2 release, but got rejected due to time constraints), but I have not had time to work on them.

Hosting contests on theme board sounds great!
Expert level sounds like a good idea too. :)

Base prices of another place (zazzle): http://www.zazzle.com/welcome/intro/products/prices_apparel.asp

Expert Board? Not severely needed, but not bad to have. Maybe.
Theme Board? Contests become biased. Maybe, but leaning towards 'just kill it.'
Note on space: Pretend there's a big emphasis on memo.
T-Shirts? I don't think I'll be able to buy, but something promotional would be good.

P.S. Memo, memo, memo.
P.P.S. I really tried to make my 'maybe's look helpful. Really.

If you started making t- shirts than I would definetly buy one! Or two. But only if they had the 2Draw logo on them. That way who ever buys them can wear them proudly and show them off. I know I would.

2draw logo for t-shirts, definately. Definitely? Anyway. I have a particular thing I'd like on a t-shirt, although it lacks color: here. We could stick images on the front of shirts, then slap 2draw logo on the back. Or below the image on the front, or some such.

Theme Board: I guess just kill it. ;__;
Asking for more space: I must agree with Mando; memo us, really. We don't spend out time reading comments, trying to figure out if someone needs more space.

Do you think there should be an Expert Level board? I don't think so.. I don't think there is really a purpose if there already is an Advanced.
Poll: To theme board or not to theme board?
I think it should be turned into the a Contest Board where moderators or regular members can host a contest and at the end of the specified time, choose 1-3 winners.. Ranking 1, 2, & 3 etc. As for the special honor to the winners.. Requests? Heheh.. Perhaps a little trophy icon on the winners userpages.
Topic: T-ShirtsI like the t-shirt idea, and I would most likely buy one. Yes, it should probably have the 2draw design on the back and a little icon in the corner of the frontside of the shirt. I have Photoshop.. Could make a little design for it. But I would like the shirts better if they were colored. (Preferably lavender/blue) And the purpley logo on the back.

Poll: Do you think there should be an Expert Level board?
Well my opinion is, for what it's worth, that advanced should be used for that purpose, and more crap has creeped its way onto it (one by me). If you create yet another board, then even more crap will be posted on advanced and eventually the crap will seep onto to expert. Maybe just bump intermediate up to 625K and Expert to 1MB since thats what most people beg for anyway (myself included).

Poll: To theme board or not to theme board?
The theme board seemed cool when whoever was thinking up themes..maybe you Mods should take turns with topics.

Topic: T-Shirts
Uh..show me where to sign. (Ty Marcello for creating such a great site.)

Icats hit the nail on the head as far as the expert board idea goes. Just uphold standards on the existing boards.
Don't care about theme boards.
Don't care about T shirts.

As a new user, I feel somewhat awkward posting here, but it seemed more appropriate to do so, since I'm one of the people who's been bumping into the space restrictions, and I have been somewhat at a loss for what to do; I haven't been sure if my early pieces with the tools would really rate more room. I've discussed this more on the layer thread, but this piece of my comments seemed more appropriate to post here.

My husband suggested that perhaps an alternative approach to the working file size limits, such that each user has a limit on *total* working file space for works in progress (rather than space per picture - but not replacing the limit on final *finished* file size on the boards), might work better for those of us who tend to work on a fairly small number of images simultaneously, but use a number of layers per image (or otherwise consume additional space), while in process. It's just a thought, and I don't know whether it would work at all with the way the site is set up, but it struck me as an idea that might have some merit, so I offer it for consideration.

It just seems to me that if all you're having to save on the boards is the PNG file, JPG, and thumbnails for each work, rather than the working files as well, each picture wouldn't take as much filespace -- and the users wouldn't be bothering the moderators for more space as often.

Speaking as a new user, that's kind of an intimidating process - "Excuse me, Mr./Ms. Moderator, sir/ma'am, but could I please have more space in which to try to finish the picture that is one of my first works with this tool which I've thought worth posting to the board, but which is still quite simple compared with those working on much more complex images? Why do I think my picture rates your time and a special exception being made for it? Uh... ...I don't know, especially since this board is being run as a free service, and I already feel indebted to the person who not only spends their time running it, but creating new and better tools with which I and others may work... ...sorry I bothered you... <creeps away quietly, attempting to be unobtrusive>"

Okay, so maybe I'm a little on the timid side when it comes with dealing with busy authority figures who are already being very generous with their time, money, energy, etc., but I don't cope well with stress (health reasons), and I *really* don't want to go around offending my hosts. I know that there are a lot of rude people out there, but at the other end of the spectrum, I'm not alone in being a bit shy, especially when it comes to asking for special privileges.

P.S. I kind of like the mixture of images I find here, though I enjoy theme boards as well - but I have to admit that what has attracted me to at least one other drawing site was its selection of theme boards.

T-shirts and such projects sound like a neat idea, and I second the idea that they should have the 2draw logo on them, because supporting the site would be a major motivating factor in my desire to purchase such a shirt, and supporting the site by advertising it while wearing the shirt would add to that motivation.

And, just a minor note, but the rules link above (which I opened to double-check the page and make sure I hadn't missed or forgotten anything) is not accurate - it takes you to a "page missing" error; but if I add the "2draw/" directory into the middle of the URL, right after "cellosoft.com/", it works. You might want to correct that.

Read these threads: /2draw/view/14229/ and /2draw/view/14455/
I'll post some more stuffs later.

Hmmm... Theme board should be a contest board, or the mods take turns thinking up ideas. If it t'wer to be a contest, the prize should be points, and 1st place would be 15, then 10, then 5... That or you get trophies, like HJ said. Every time you win a contest, you get a new trophy (gold, silver, bronze) in your "trophies". (you could add a trophies thing to peoples profiles, marcello)

As for expert, It isn't a bad idea, but that may need to be saved for after the n00bs migrate.

T-shirts, I would love to buy one but I doubt they'd have a "super super nine year old midget small" size. great idea though. Logo on back. "http://www.cellosoft.com/2draw" should be below the actual logo that only says "2draw". Maybe a 2draw logo on front too, I would buy one of those if they had my size. (if I didn't want a picture on front or anything.)

the address is 2draw.net... or http://cellosoft.com/2draw/ http://www.cellosoft.com/2draw/ is for n00bs. :-)

haha real the rules?

Poll: Do you think there should be an Expert Level board?
no.

Poll: To theme board or not to theme board?
eeh. if you had some sort of vote on a theme or a place to suggest themes you might get more people posting on a theme they want? and i never did like the fact that theres only one canvas size.

Topic: T-Shirts
-personally i wouldnt have enough money or a way of paying.
-id say start out with youth/adult tshirts and babydoll tshirts?
-id say $5 a shirt is a reasonable amount
-hm. id say a selection of some of the more liked drawings? with 2draw written on bottom/under it somewhere.

Marcello: I know that it's 2draw.net... ^_^ I just thought... I would... put the full adressss.... -_-;
Mazi: I agree.

2draw.net is the full address...

...
You're mean Marcello. -__-

I am new too , but just from what I have seen I agree with Icats and Axil..just increase the size on the Intermediate and Advanced..and be more restrictive as to what goes to Advanced.. TShirts are probably not the way to go from my own experience..initially a few sell but then youre stuck with the supply and very little sales... I dont know the alternative, but I have been involved in other organizations who tried tshirts.. and they usually fail.. they are usually an idea that seems better than it really is.. I like the idea of contests..they can be fun.

Well we'd be using something like 99dogs where there's no inventory or investment, basically they print it on a shirt-by-shirt basis as people order. Doesn't really cost anything other than the time to make the designs, set up the store and setup the shirts in their system.

Do you think there should be an Expert Level board?
I'm not totally against it, but it doesn't seem needed, really, because the Advance board can serve just as well as a Expert Board, like you siad Marcello, the Board levels are the lower limits, not upper.

Poll: To theme board or not to theme board?
While I've never entered anything on the theme board, I think it would be nice to keep it, if you think a few alterations would be helpful, then that's fine, but I love looking at the submissions and gettings a look at each artists point of view.


T-shirts sound fun, too. I'd buy one, most likely, I don't mind being a walking advertisement. Designs would be a trouble though, I don't know how amny people can do designs, and the resolution they would have to be might cause a problem. (Hey, if you decide to do T-shirts you could make a T-shirt design board.)
But if they're a possibility, then I belive they would be a good idea.

NO.
There shouldn't be a need for Expert board, because a lot of drawings will be deleted from there.

NO.
If you're contemplating this long on keeping the theme board, just get rid of it.

NO.
I wouldn't be willing to buy a shirt and promote this site. This site, I believe, does not need more [bad] users.

Poll: Do you think there should be an Expert level board?

I think increasing the file size for each picture on intermediate and advanced would serve well and eliminate the space problem alot of ppl seem to be having.

T-Shirts are always a good idea to raise money. Everyone buys them, everyone wears them. I'd keep it kind of simple, tho - something that is clear what it's about, and something everyone will go for.

The links to the threads have been VERY useful, thank you Marcello! My one remaining question is this - how do we find out who the moderators are, in order to memo them? Or is there a guide somewhere, to these "stoopid noobie" questions, that I'm just overlooking?

ky: allow me to quote what I wrote, since you were not paying attention:

What kinds of designs would you like to see? Original? (Such as cool designs, maybe some with cool phrases related to drawing and whatnot.) Promotional? (Similar to original, but more prominently "advertising" 2draw.) Pictures? (Actual drawings from 2draw, either partially redrawn for higher resolution or used as is.)

Obviously you are not interested in the promotional type of designs. You are not the only one who does not like being a walking billboard. I for one would like some commentary "art" designs and not specific to 2draw. So what about the other things?

-erases childish antics-

What I mean is that I don't like the idea so much that I would tell you I didn't instead of not giving ideas at all (despite your lack of asking).

eh?

Haha. Nevermind.

ah.. I didnt realize there was a source to order shirts without having to hold inventory.. how about offering some with some of the showcase pics on them? I would certainly think those would sell..some of those are terrific..

I also think the theme board should be a contest to earn points... broken down into experience levels... of course. But I enjoy having my drawings critiqued... it only makes me better. :)

I think that there should be an expert board and i like the idea of the theme board

i have been working on a biger project latly though so i dont have time to visit the theme. would if i could but dont have the time :(

Hrm... I don't think there is a list of mods anywhere, is there? In no order at all: Marcello = supermod guy, there's me, Hakkai, FuryofRoy, Armando, Mazi, and some other peeps probably. You want to memo someone who checks here often if you want something urgently.

About the expert board, I kinda have been looking at 2draw in the background for a long time (not actively moderating). I don't think it's necessary at all, and at the same time I would like to see stricter standards all around for all boards. People seem to be very attached to their art for some reason... if I spent 5 hrs on something and it got deleted... ok, annoying. I wouldn't flame anyone though... Anything less than 1 hour and it gets deleted pfft... whatever. You'll get over it, and so will we. I've had a ton of art stuff I worked on in the past for probably 10hrs at the least and I couldn't care less about it now. If someone says my stuff sucks and should stay on the beginner board, fine. Your status as a human being is not lessened by someone else's remarks, get it? People act as if it's their right to draw here. It's a fine place as long as you consider it a priveledge to be included in this community. Besides I thought the Elite Bastard board was an Expert board?

About the Theme board, I believe it needs to be closed until the contest ideas that we had can be worked out. It really isn't needed, plus
anyone can start similar ideas with their pictures just fine on the regular boards (Turkey Girl series inspired by Xod comes to mind). If you want to theme, get people together who also want to do something similar and just post it to wherever as usual. How hard is that?

T-shirts... I'm sure if we can just get the whole community together on this, 2draw will be pumping out nice looking t-shirts in no time. Just bust something out and if it gets good criticism and you want to put together something for a tshirt, redo the thing at high rez. For those who have the time and will, work on 2draw shirts (not logos per se as Marcello has mentioned).

T-shirt with selected pictures done at 2draw and 2draw logo sound like a good idea.
it'll be nice if there are at least two base color for t-shirt, black and white.

Would it be worth trying to partner with some site to have images on 2draw plug into an automatic print/t-shirt print system? Where basically you can get a t-shirt or postcard/whatever with any drawing you have made (provided it is not deleted). And maybe an option to allow other people to get whatever with your picture.

I am sure it is possible, although it would probably require a large number of users showing interest to convince one of these companies...

Deviantart does something similar... as far as I can tell.

That sounds like a cool idea for the shirts, but since you are doing it to raise money for the site, you might check into how much revenue you might lose by complicating it like that. (I think that would work fine with postcards, tho.. neat idea.) And if you choose just certain drawings for the shirts, everybody doesn't like the same stuff, so.. might be a better seller if you just keep it simple. Wish I had some money to donate, but I still owe the IRS and I don't wanna go to prison. (lol) :)

Well, again, it's not really money involved in setup, and theoretically none in unsold shirts, so it only costs time to setup, nothing extra.

Then I think hooking up with someone who can get you rolling on the shirts and cards is a great idea... if ppl can choose a pic from here and have it printed on postcards or shirts... you've got customers already.

And on the Expert Board thing, I did comment on the space problem, but I think Icats and Axil are right, and if you look at the ratio of drawings posted in advanced compared to the other boards, you don't really need to create a new board. You've probably got 3 or 4 artists that qualify to draw on an expert board, and I think they already draw on the elite board. There are a few artists that post in intermediate that should post alot of their drawings in advanced, tho. (like AXIL, for example) Do you hear me, AXIL!!??

i would agree that there is no use for an expert board...although, if you were thinking of making a new board...perhaps a stepping stone between either intermediate and advanced, or even beginner and intermediate might be good. that way people looking for more space wont have to hop up prematurely or keep asking for space...just a thought.

Yeah, method3, there's another mod...me. -___- I must be terribly overlooked.

I still watch wet dreams of Turkey girl in the nights... >:D
|XOD|

Rofl, omg it's Xod. Note: VisceralVamp is also a mod, add her to the list of people to annoy with tons of memos about exceeding image size limits and stuff. =P

what about sexual memos? >:)
|XOD|

I think that falls into the "and stuff" part.

Expert Board: too high e.e;;;
Theme Board: keep it!!
T-Shirts: nice, but there should be a shirt with Marcello's picture on it (18+ pic) *cackles*
Sexual memos? O__o;;;;

I would buy a t-shirt also. I am all for the theme board, but I think there should be a theme board for each level. A beginer theme board should also have a higher minimum time limit, to ensure the quality of a subject is worthy. Thats just my opinion.... have a nice day!!

I think showcase pictures on t-shirts would be extremely spiffy. As to the expert board, it is a nice idea, but I think the purpose would be better suited by just changing the limits on the pre-existing boards.
Theme board; I am emotionally attached to the theme board, but a contest board would be quite fun, too. I love the themes, and I've posted a picture in them as often as I have had time to spend in creating a worthy one.
T-shirts: I'm still working on getting my stingy parents to donate part of my allowance instead of giving it to me, but they might feel a little more willing to spend money to the same cause if they were to get something in return.
I'd buy one if it had long sleeves with 2draw.net or whatnot written along the arms (you know, skater-ish) or if it was an awesome picture or logo on a capped baby-doll tee (see Marcello's list of available items).

Well, t-shirts wouldn't be considered a donation, considering that 2draw gets merely a fraction of what you pay... so you really can't consider buying a shirt to being as good as donating the same price...
We'll have to sell quite a few t-shirts, or mark them up quite a bit, to actually be worthwhile.

There needs to be an official logo to go on the t-shirt...
I wouldn't like a square showcase drawing on my t-shirt, because it would just look cheesy.
It would have to be some cool looking text saying "2draw.net" or "2draw".
Some graffiti style logo would be cool. *Stares at Method*.
^_^

If you try to do T-shirts you're going to lose your ass.

Marcello will lose his ass!!!???

That'd be a sight. He could send us a picture then put THAT on a t-shirt.

2draw logo is coming sometime... when I get to it.

Expert Level: Naaaah, no need for it. I mean, there is advanced and then you have Elitist Bastards. Expert level I think is just overkill.

Theme Board: Hmm...The contest thing is pretty good, but like someon mentioned, it might be biased. And then you might have to make contests based on people's levels. Not a bad idea, seeing as how the original theme board came by to a horrible fate.

T-Shirts: Hmm well, ehhhh. Maybe. But it gotta have a good design I think. Mouse pads too. Lol.

T-shirts: I honestly... probably wouldn't buy one, unless it was a REALLY good shirt. :)
The losing of the ass one would probably be one I'd buy. Sounds amusing. ^_~

However, to bring up other fundraising suggestions, I'll bring up something that worked well as a fundraiser for another forum I'm a member of.

Recipe books... aka Cookbooks. It may not interest all members (same as the t-shirts), but the effort to put them together is relatively painless, and the rewards are great.

Would they be sold? Online, or hardcopy?

Yargh. Stupid internet. Lost my first reply.

Yes, they would be sold, and a hardcopy would be more likely to raise money. Basically, you get a few members willing to put some time aside to help compile and design a cookbook (I'll volunteer my services, since I've done it before... and I'm a desktop publisher for a living). Members of the site would submit their favorite recipes to the compilers.

The cookbooks could be produced in a copy shop (I can get us some discounts from CopyMax if we go through my store)... maybe a full color cover, B/W insides, and then spiral, or comb, or wire bound to give it a sharp, professional look. The cost to produce them would probably be a few bucks a book, but you simply mark up the price a few bucks and you've got some moola to fund the site for a while.

Like I said, it wouldn't interest every member, but I'm betting there's a few people here who are willing to chip out a few bucks for something they may actually USE. :)

seems odd, still trying to find the connection to 2draw...however, feel free to find out how many people are interested in such a thing.

a cookbook? haha. i did fundraisers like that for things like girlscouts...but do you think that will gain enough interest for an art site?

There's not really any connection, but there doesn't HAVE to be a connection for a fundraiser. :) It worked quite well for a forum that was dedicated to the discussion of Marvel Comics. ^_~ The cost to produce them was about $3 a book. What resulted was about $250 profit for the forum, and members only paid $7.50 for each book (some bought more than one).

I suppose I'll start a thread for that... see if people are actually interested in it here.

(I've got a great, easy recipe for fudge that you can make in a microwave. ^_______^)