I drew a couple of things on ratemydrawings.com

rainbow fish
paper world

I think the tools we use here with lascaux are far superior, but they do have this weird fill tool that lets you draw the shape you want filled. Both of those drawings are made almost entirely with that tool and a lot of overlapping transparent shapes. It'd be nice if we had that tool here.

I hate their ink limit though. It's basically a limit on the amount of strokes you can make in a drawing and once you hit the limit you're done with the drawing whether you want to be or not. It seems long, continuous strokes count against the limit too, but I'm not sure how it all gets calculated.

i totally agree with you, i have drawn there around 100 drawings, and i must recognice i LOVE that fill tool, its the only tool i miss here.... and about the ink limit... -.- well for that reason i left the site... its a big limitation, that doesnt let you improveing and developing your skills, but i am sure that soon they will change that x) ... Btw great drawings Shanghai ;)

oh thats so ironic, thats the exact same reason i stopped drawing on ratemydrawings.com too, they're canvas and ink limitation is what pushed me. Theres only one size canvas and its so small, its annoying and there are a whole bunch of drawing i couldnt finish because of their pointless ink limitations, dont get me wrong its good website with a good community, but they pay more attention to adding new features to their drawchat than their drawing software.

shanghai: by your description it sounds like a freehand vector polygon tool? My guess is RMD is a pseudo vector-based drawing program (since it is written in flash), so it's just using Flash's drawing routines to let you draw (thus severely limiting the power they can give users).

The ink limit is probably so they can limit the kilobytes each image animation takes up (they store every mouse point you draw with, so that it can be played back. each mouse point could take anywhere from 4 to 20+ bytes of data, depending how clever they are). They are shooting themselves in the foot with such a limitation if it's driving the better artists away, since space is pretty cheap.

Personally I'd rather delete crappy drawings than limit everyone to save space.

I've tried it, made a shitty picture because the lack of ink didn't allow me to do the detail I love. For sketching it's fine, and I'm sure people are more interested in chatting than drawing anyway, but for an art site, this place always wins.

That fill tool is neat though.

Cello, what are your thoughts on Chibi paint, the new program that came out, and would you consider bringing it here?

In my opinion it's pretty useful to practice doing less strokes per painting. Not that I am on RMD.

lol on RMD no one gives their honest opinon drawings that i think deserve a 6 get rated 10 by every1, and no its not cuz the drawing deserved a ten, its just cuz its that persons friends rateing it, its just so annoying. all in all, i find 2draw more honest even though some can go overboard. i wouldnt even mind the ink limitation if it wasnt for how small the canvas size was on RMD.

Chibipaint looks interesting... certainly has some cool features, but the interface is absolutely horrible. Which I think outweighs the advantages it brings. No animation support also makes it a bit of a lose. But certainly something to keep an eye on, I guess.

I was intending to draw some more on RMD, but just like with 2draw I don't draw nearly as often as I plan.

I've noticed a lot of drawings on RMD that we would consider only intermediate at best, and not even in the high end of intermediate, that have 9.0+ ratings on RMD. I figure that a rating of 10 is the highest I can rate and therefore is the same as saying "this could not be any better than what it is." The fact is -everything- on RMD could be better. I've only rated a few things with a 10, not because they were prefect but because they were very impressive given the limitation on workspace.

hehe i like both sites....but im starting to improve a lot aand i run out of ink on almost every drawing D:< but...... today RMD is getting more ink :D

this reminds of the time Xod made that one face drawing with a single stroke.

From what I heard Chibi paint is an ongoing process. They're still adding new features. It's downloadable for home use but I'm waiting for them to get those new features up.

Yeah, no animation can suck since you can't save layers.

it can save layers. just like lascaux, it has its own layered format it saves in in addition to png. according to forums, an animation format is planned (along with lots of other things)...

it hasn't been updated since january, so ongoing process or not, it's taking ...

I have used Chibi paint a couple of times over at Senile.nl (a dutch oekaki site). And Lascaux is still the best. It lacks a couple of features Lascaux has.
Also tried ratemydrawings.com, but with those tools I can only make flat childish drawings.

I hope senile means something else in dutch :)
what features does chibi paint lack that you use in lascaux?

Nope, Senile=senile :D. (actual, the correct Dutch spelling for Senile = Seniel)
Uhm, lets see, I like the gradient tool and the magic wand selection Lascaux has. Plus the fact that every tool has its fixed placing. That I don't have to use dropdown menu's for some features. Or that tools cover my canvas. However, the blend and smudge tool can be handy.

Looking through the RMD comments/forums, it looks like the average age of people on the site is 10. And people think the "cool" "awesome" "nice colors" thing is annoying here... pales in comparison. :-)

lol marcello thats not exactly accurate, the population is 12 year olds, 16 year olds and occationally adults such as goldDragonfly. There are a few little kids that spam stick figures and scribble on the website, thats why a visitor might get the idea that the population might be 10 year-olds and other mini kids.

12 and 16 year olds are still very young compared to the average age here.

lol i hope you guys dont determine art skill by age, because there are many kids that could draw up to you guy's level, as for me i've tried to set that example by constantly improoving and practicing, http://www.ratemydrawings.com/drawings/still-life/205655.html and http://www.ratemydrawings.com/drawings/portraits/186803.html i say this cause im getting the vibe that that's what you guys think u have to be a certain age to draw well.

Ooh, the piano one looks excellent.

But violin one bugs me :D; weird angles and whatnot.

No, it's not really that we think you have to be above X age to draw well, it's more like the vast majority of people below X age simply don't. Take xiau for example. When I was her age I didn't draw nearly as well as what she does now. If 2draw had existed when I was her age I would have been stuck on the beginner board but she's produced some things on the advanced board here, and at least one of which is in the showcase. Age doesn't determine ability with art, but with age comes more opportunity to improve. Mr Artist is good for his age, but most people his age aren't.

i guess you're right shanghai, by the way, im mr. artist xD

Personally, for a web based drawing program and community I prefer RMD.

i only prefer the community, it accepts all kinds of art anime to realistic to cartoons and the people are more friendly and social, though not so much the drawing program 2draw claims that title.

Don't get me wrong, I think the 2Draw drawing programs are great, but if I want to make a complex drawing I prefer Photoshop. 2Draw is too similar to Photoshop but not as good.

I have photoshop, and various other programs, but I kind of like the feel of lascaux. moogleymog hasn't drawn anything here (or done anything at all from what I can see), have you tried lascaux?

RMD has more people online at any given time. It seems like there's often several times as many people online as 2draw, even though the number of accounts on both sites is very close. So that's part of why RMD has more active forums.

2draw also accepts all kinds of art. We do want people to put a little effort into their drawings though, but there's a wide range of styles and skill levels here. It's not really the style that we care about, because good anime is good anime and bad anime is bad anime, just like good realism is good realism and bad realism is bad realism. If it's good it's good, and if it's not then it's not, regardless of style.

I have used Lascaux - I have a half-finished drawing - but I personally prefer photoshop. I could spend 9 hours creating a picture on Lascaux and 9 hours creating the same on Photoshop and the Photoshop one would be miles better. I am not talking about my artistic skill, but the actual quality of the end result. This is just my opinion that is all

Here's an idea! Use photoshop! Well that wasn't too hard of a problem to solve now was it?

But seriously, you don't have to use Lascaux if you don't want to. We're relatively fine with all the applets the way they are and if you don't like them, study some programming and make one yourself.

EDIT: wow, this got really off-topic. so... RMD... pretty cool I hear. D:

There isn't really anything wrong with someone saying they prefer photoshop. There's plenty of features photoshop has that lascaux simply doesn't. Not all those features are really necessary though.

Now that I look hard enough, moogleymog's sunflower picture is looking pretty good. There are some people here that do high detail realism drawings with lascaux. I think the time it takes partly depends on the individual, since some of our people manage photo realism results in 6 hours or less.

my age comment was mainly referring to the writing (both style---or lack of style---and topic of choice) in forums and comments.
http://www.ratemydrawings.com/community/viewtopic.php?id=3353
http://www.ratemydrawings.com/community/viewtopic.php?id=3510
http://www.ratemydrawings.com/community/viewtopic.php?id=3511
http://www.ratemydrawings.com/community/viewtopic.php?id=3438
Many apologies for those faint of heart. I just clicked 4 threads in their "lounge," because it gives a fair assessment of at least some group on the site. Not that 2draw is elitist or anything. cough. cough.

RMD feels very cheap to me. It's almost as bad as myspace (in both looks and finesse). Frankly I'd prefer having fewer people on 2draw if it means they're more mature. (hah!)

myspace is a social website completely based on millions of teenagers to gather around and spill all kinds of personal information about themselves while they chat with their friends and total strangers online. RMD is an organised site devoted to art that constantly improoves on its drawing system and has a healthy community from young to old while it contains an invention of their own called drawchat where all artists can assosiate with each other as they express their love of art. These two are total oppsites in style, finesse, comunity, whatever else u could think of, i dont know where the comparison lies. As for 2draw, weell it has a FANTASTIC drawing system, probably the best on the web although the community isn't as lively as it could be =/

RMD has a lot more active users than 2draw, so it's going to be more "lively."

I was referring to the actual site itself being ugly and not well designed (like myspace). The whole rating system is very popularity-focused and not skill focused. People aren't praised for good art as much as good copying skills. The site doesn't focus on the art as much as the community, imo. There is so much crap on every page, it feels like art mass production.

Compare it, for example, to queeky, which has essentially identical features to RMD but has a much "lighter" feel to the site, isn't so up in your face about everything.

In any case, I shouldn't be berating other sites. Those thoughts are just my biased opinion (and perhaps some insight into 2draw's design approach). Why do you think the RMD community is more lively than 2draw, and what do you think could be done to make this community better?

This is just my own opinion -- I don't claim to be an expert on any of this -- so here's my 2 cents on what makes RMD more lively...

I think that some of the appeal of RMD comes from the constant competition feel of it. The existence of the rating system on the site means that people are constantly striving to come out on top, to be ranked high, as a sort of ego booster. Plus rating systems are just easy to understand, so everyone, regardless of age, feels they can be a part of it.

Then there's also the constant contests (adding to the ongoing competition feel) and prizes to boot. They also have drawchat which is a huge appeal to some since you get to draw with your friends, or draw live with your favourite artists, or just talk with people that share similar interests via the user created drawing rooms.

Finally, there's the animations part of it -- all users are on the same playing field and you know that everyone has the same tools -- and the techniques found in the animations of say a veteran artist educate and inspire the amateur ones to meet that standard.

i have to agree that here on 2draw are more mature artists ..i don`t see soooo much manga on this website and the tools are better than on rmd....except of the filling tool that is missing :D. but rmd...offers more...i don`t know how to explain ... maybe that drawchat is one of the big differences ...or the rating system that makes rmd more special.and of course the animation of the drawings. but people like diversity and try something that is new....i don`t see why these 2 websites should argue between them or try to compete ... :D ... each of them are special in their own way :)...but of course..updates are always welcomed .

To be honest, I think the animation of the drawings is a drawback for me, when I want to see a drawing I want to see the drawing, not first have to wait for the animation to finish. And it might be my slow pc, but drawing there is a pain, circles too edgy for my taste.

lol marcello what u said in that 1st paragragh is what people complain about in the RMD forums, but nobody seems to listen, most of them rate things cause it's their friends drawing, or its "cute" to be honest unless u draw at maximum level like roxana and golddragonfly, u dont get recognision no matter what. i dont know how many 10-min effort ridiculous and unsightly things i've seen make it to the top board while many top level artists are hiden in the crowd struggling to get their art noticed. And you said you saw crappy drawings everywhere well what do you expect, those are 6,7 year olds on the computer drawing. As a matter of fact, i even suggested an age limit in their forums and you know what all of them said? they all said "NO LITTLE KIDS DRAW CUUUTTTEE!!!" and thats why, just looking at the front page may make you not like the website.

anyway, its perfectly understandable to pick 2draw over RMD. As for me personally i like both, they give me a balance of fun and actual meaningful artwork being done. =)

Shrug. RMD is a for-profit site by a series of full time employees. 2draw is basically run out of pocket in my spare time with the help of some friends. It'd probably be far more advanced given more time and resources.

Rmd looks cheap(ish) compared to 2draw. It's the blaring colors and mismatched fonts. Must say it has grown quite fast tho, I was there maybe 8 months ago, and it was still pretty small and compact. Even got in the top 10 once or twice (ha) but with drawings I'd be ashamed to show here.

lol enjoydotcom that's RMD for ya x)

Wow, I did not expect such immature comments from the creator of this site! o_O

xD i love it wen adults act immature it makes a good weapon against them wen they're serious >:)

Well, there are different types of immature. Those sort of comments are what is spoiling this community and it makes it even worse coming from people who should be discouraging it.

I don't like to talk or gossip about other communities which apparently seems to be the tactic here, but I do feel like it is time to somewhat "defend" some of the claims made here...

I respect 2draw and it's community, it's tools and of course it's members - I like that people have a choice of which communities they belong to. Artists should not have to make a definitive choice for their creative outlet. Love something about one site, love something about another - it's a great way to contribute and make all communities grow.

I would like to ask one thing, and that is to please not make false statements about RMD and it's members or owner. If these are just observations that is fine, but just make it clear that these are observations or opinions. I'm sure you can all appreciate how much passion goes into running an online community. I honestly do wish 2draw the best. I feel like there are healthy differences and slightly different goals for each community. I love the way the internet has allowed such communities to grow - and grow together. This was part of the inspiration for drawingday.org - a day art communities could work together to build awareness of online art. I hope 2draw can participate in 2009.

RMD is more than 2 years of hard work - non-commercial, by myself outside of my other sources of income. It's flattering that you would assume otherwise ;) There are no staff, only occasional freelancers that help with development. The RMD community knows me very well and I have much respect for the members - regardless of their skill level or age. I'm very proud that RMD encourages younger users and doesn't try to target only the high end users. Perhaps this is where the two communities goals differ. RMD is a huge community because of this - there are thousands of links from myspace, facebook, youtube, etc. and this is why we keep attracting younger members - and they're very very welcome.

Respectfully,
Mick Gow
RateMyDrawings.com

P.s. Marcello I'd be happy to chat any time and we can share stories of falling asleep at our keyboards late at night working on our much loved communities :)

You know originally this was just me showing off a couple of my drawings, because recently a few RMD people came to 2draw and I thought I'd try their site out. Now we have our Benevolent(ish) Dictator Marcello and "that mick person" here. Come on people, talk about my drawings. :3

Shanghai: Great awesomely exiting drawings. I would never be able to do that with the applets of RMD. ;)

I will be the first person to admit to my immaturity/rogue behavior/bastardliness. I have a tendency to speak my mind as you may have noticed. Granted, I feel slightly humbled by Mick's posting here, so I apologize if I came off sounding "gossipy." I appreciate your not stooping to my level despite my harsh comments. ;-) What I posted was observation as you say.

My comment on staff was based on the RMD about page where it references RMD now having a "dedicated team of individuals." The commercial-ness was assumed based on all the advertising I saw---rmd very much has that viral start-up feel to it---a good thing that maybe some day I will attempt myself. Obviously I didn't double-check my sources. ;D

I was actually looking into participating in drawing day but as many people here know, my laziness tends to get in the way of things, and being busy with school got in the way of things. I'll drop you an e-mail about that later.

reminds me of the truce in nine-deuce.