some tiny demented part of me would like to believe that President Obama would simply like to humble the wealthy a bit by putting them in the position of needing temporary help and thus empower the poor by putting them in the position of needing to be stronger... but I think that he's already done too much damage for that to be the case and I think he intends to do more - I really don't know what to think besides nothing makes sense right now
I agree..I feel like I can't even deal with it you know..I just don't even know what to say anymore on the whle thing...anyways...the art looks very good...
I just stole a joint of roast beef from te supermarket! the security guard ran after me and shouted " what are you doing with that" i shouted back "mashed potato pea's and carrots" .
I think that maybe Hillary was right ("He's not ready on day 1"). What a mess, and what a bunch of buffoons. This is turning out to be an "economic Katrina".
put your seatbelt's on and hold on tight...we've got 4 years to try to survive...God help our kid's and kid's kid's as they ALL will be paying for this bs....
addendum after reading Qt's comment:
We could go back and back and back, because what President Bush took over was Clinton's mess...etc.
I don't want to see anyone starving. But, you know what, this is still America...and if people HAVE made themselves wealthy, no matter how wealthy, who are we to penalize their success? This is not a socialistic country where everyone is on some equal playing field. If those that are NOT doing well would show a bit of initiative, they could find themselves in much better economic circumstances than they are in now. For example, I, too was a single mom, raised my son by myself...but ALSO, got my Bachelor's degree by working hard at 2 jobs while I raised my son. That's just one example that there is no excuse for justing sitting there, idly by, beating on the rich and remaining 'poor me.'
Oh dear....George W. put us in this mess! And yes, the Have's and the Have-nots have been getting further and further apart for years. My father predicted it years ago. I do believe that there is not anyone at this site that is a "TRUE" "HAVE". Fundamentally it makes no sense what so ever to have people making more than 200,000 a year. ANything above that is gluttenous and you all know that. For heavens sake....the middle class is disappearing and I do not believe that is a good thing. I grew up during the good thriving times of the middle class when the middle class was the MAJORITY. Why do so many people here think it is ok for so many people to be starving, homeless, W/O insurance etc. etc. etc. I do not understand and never will. Freedom for all means all having a quality of life that includes those things. A majority of people that are on some kind of welfare are not people that want to be in that situation, but our current politics give them no choice. Single mother's have to pay for daycare and have a difficult time finding a job with benefits etc. etc. etc. Please, we all need to be patient and let this administration work things out. The AIG debacle happened during Bush's watch, I believe. What a mess that is......or I suppose you all agree that they should get thier bonuses of over a million dollars even though the company is in a downward spin? Okay, done rambling for a bit......I should learn to ignore politics as we probabally will not solve anything here, and I will not change your point of views. Hopefull we can still be fellow artists and enjoy eachother for that.
YES WE CAN! lol
I know the solution: Everyone chill, and quit taking sides and pointing fingers and realize that what goes around comes around.
I'm so tired right now.
I'm amazed at people who hate the rich and continue to use the "have vs have-not" argument. I consider myself a "have" because I have everything I want or need in life, even though I don't have millions of dollars in the bank.
The true "have vs have-not" situation is where there is super rich of the few and abject poverty of the many and nothing in between and no opportunity for the poor to move out of poverty. In America we have the super rich and we have poverty, but we also have a continuum in between. In addition, anyone in American can become rich, including the dodo-head living in a single-wide trailer with only a 3rd grade education by buying lotto tickets with the weekly purchase of cigarettes.
I don't hate the rich, even though I am not one. I understand that the rich help to keep our economy going and everyone's standard of living higher. We all ride the coat tails of the rich, including the poor. In addition, the rich contribute a lot of money to charity, research, and, yes, even to help the poor.
The budding socialists in American don't understand that socialism will not bring the poor up to your level, it will bring you down to their level. Are you willing to give up your standard of living? I'm not.
jpjp, PLEASE dont take this personally but....ok, here I go again. I see the world is so different from when I grew up. Yes, there were rich people then, but the distance was not as great between the rich and the middle class as there is now. I see an incredible change in our public schools. We moved to outstate Minnesota 15 years ago and moved back to the twin cities five years ago. The school system has changed so much in just those 15 years. I work every day with the working poor and see first hand the children of the not as well off. I also see the children of the very well off. Our school district is divided in half by the suberbs closer to the twin cities and the suburbs that are fourth and fifth tier cities from the downtowns. I sometimes feel the children of the very well off as being rude and disrespectful as the children of the less fortunate. I feel the cake eaters have no excuse to be disiplinary problems but often are, due to nothing more than being spoiled by parents that are too busy for them, and too many indulgences. At least the less fortunate have some reasons to have issues due to thier circumstances. Many are responsible for the care of thier siblings and the running thier household, as the parents are working two and three jobs just to put food in thier mouths. I certainly do not hate the rich....my husband comes from someone that was well off as a child, in comparison to me. It is people like my brother who has done quite well for himself, is retired and living quite well, that continuely thinks that professions like teaching should not expect to get any more funding.....they have too much as it is. And....he was born and reared by a father who dedicated his life to teaching and coaching football, without whom he would not have been as successful as he is if it were not for that father. He went to Westpoint on a football scholarship. Those are pretty hard to come by and my dad had quite a bit to do with his successes, giving him his genes and his nurturing. He repays him by thinking public school employees are making enough money, should go without increases. Yes, he put five years of his life into the service, one year in VietNam when captain's mortality rate was very low. Two years he spent at West Point coaching plebe football, so that was a pretty nice stint. The other two years were one in US and One in Germany. So he certainly has paid his due to America.
On the other hand, my daughter is in her second year teaching in AZ and needs a second job...waitressing, just to make ends meet and she is single and has a roommate in her appartment. She is struggling to pay off her college loans. She works her butt off. These are the things that do not make sense to me....and people who put a company into the ground are getting one million dollar bonuses??? Go figure.
Athletes and movie stars and CEO's are way over paid, in my humble opinion. I just think that a little evening out of the wealth would not be a bad thing.
PS....I would surmize that my familly is in the middle to upper middle income level, and I am not complaining about our situation, and I do not HATE the rich. I too have everything I could ever need or want, aside from a three carat diamond or two. (just a little humour there).
You didn't answer the question, "Are you willing to give up your standard of living?". Socialism will lower your standard of living, not improve it. Go to any socialist country and see what the average standard of living is like. It is well below what yours is now. Are you willing to give that up?
In America, poor people have the same opportunities as everyone else, and education is a key factor in helping them better their situation, so I am all for improving education for the poor.
QT, I see it as follows, just commenting on your story. You in a teaching environment have done 10x more than someone serving abroad in military. If I'm not mistaken, West Point is also a military school (?) so probably not for the kids with little or no means. Anyone can pick up a rifle and get respect, but not everybody is capable of holding down a classroom of unwilling teens. My brother is also very well off, and we too come from a not high class background. But he still knows where he comes from. Surprising that your brother seems to be forgotten what your parents provided you with.
(I'm not going in to the politics aspect of this discussion, I know little to nothing about US politics).
I will say this on politics Jpjp, being more social will not lower your standards of living! We here in the Netherlands have a system where everybody gets healthcare, no matter what. And they do not have to go to rediculous busy "free" clinics. The better off do not notice this that much. As a person with a job that pays quite well, I'm happy to contribute a portion of my salary to benefits. Why? Because someday it might be you needing it! In fact, that what I pay monthly through taxes over my salaries is maybe 4% that goes to social stuff.
(Edited, it first said, "will lower your standards", it was late, it had to say and it does so now, "will not lower your standards of living")
I like your attitude Joyce... you never do know what life is going to hand you, such as what is happening now in the US and to be willing to accept it, as Joyce would accept being in a worse situation than she is now.. well, there is something to be said for that. She's right, you just never know,s o I feel some people should get off their high horses and not bitch so much and I don't even necessarily mean anyone in this post, it seems to be the main theme of all that I am hearing from anyone's mouth around me lately "I am this, I did this, and I was that, and I did that" Too much pride is a little over the top. Too much of anything isn't good. "Everything in moderation", my father always says. I'm not saying accept socialism, just accept that less is more sometimes. Am I making any sense? I constantly question that. Nonetheless... this has all been a big eye opener for me.
"But the bonuses are almost entirely a mess of his own making. Dodd says that someone from Treasury inserted the language that would protect the bonuses. And, of course, had Obama not fast-tracked the stimulus bill -- insisting on a vote before it was even possible to read it -- perhaps more members of Congress would have raised questions about that odd provision. With just three exceptions, Republicans voted as a bloc against the stimulus and complained loudly -- remember John Boehner slamming the bill on the floor? -- that they hadn't had time to read it."
Do you understand this QT? Just in case, I'll translate it for you. Obama's stimulus package has language in it specifically stating that these guys should and will get those bonuses. Did you get that? OBAMA'S plan, his package authorized the fucking bonuses!!! Now that fucking prick wants to hold private citizens the ones who got a bonus) up before the masses and burn them at the stake in order to fuel the "rich people are greedy and bad" agenda. And by the way, the total of those bonuses is less than 1% of the money AIG received from the bail out. Less than 1%. If you didn't know that, you would think that these guys took a big ole chunk of the bail out money. Nope, a tiny fraction. AND IT WAS PART OF THE LANGUAGE OF THE GOD DAMN STIMULUS BILL THAT THEY GET THE BONUSES!!!!!
edit: Oh and another thing, I am sick and tired of you saying Bush made this mess. The Clinton administration pressured Fanny And Freddy to give those loans to people that didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of paying them back and that's where all this shit began, OK? Not the Bush administration.
so are you gonna bust a lung screaming about it or are you gonna revolt, like all the republicans keep threatening? I wanna see SOMETHING happen besides the insanity that is going on now- and where do I stand? I don't think I can even stand amidst this, so I'll just stay on my knees praying for now - I guess I could at least wash the floor while I'm at it
Food for thought, are you people in the US aware that the entire world is in a downward spiral? Some governments blame the US, most (if not all) inhabitants of the countries in a tight knicker twist blame their own governments. It goes hand in hand if you ask me, that the powers that be get the most dirt and grief for the problems. The ones (outside politicians) get in polls the most votes, because they can kick the establishment without having to prove put their money where their mouth is.
yes we are aware Joyce but over here is the crisis in focus right now... and it's such a huge crisis when you look at the big picture that I have to keep trying to simplify it so as not to go insane - and I don't think the powers that be over here right now are the ones getting the most dirt and grief... they're going to do what they want no matter what grief they get, and the people will pay the price - the more the people piss them off, the more they'll have to pay for it, that's the mentality I'm seeing and I am new to the whole political scene - it's very childish - there is no "we're in this together", it's all finger pointing right now, as the picture above displays beautifully - the government are not supposed to act like parents caring for and disciplining children, they should be responsible adults working with other adults, the people, to provide the best foundation of a better country for our children to live in
Sadly the crisis is global, hope we can get out of it soon. Eventho I personally have not noticed any change in my financial status yet, I do know people who lost their jobs, and that's sad.
My mom just got a job after three to four months, maybe a year, of being unemployed. We were living off of child support my dad owed, and that was 84 bucks a week, and he didn't have much at the time either. Sad ain't it? Not really. Some are in a worse situation than I was. We are doing better now. People can make it through this crisis, we just have to be optimistic about it.
As for Obama, all I can really say is, we are getting the change he so graciously promised, but did you ever notice how he never said what kind of change? I didn't, but maybe that's my age speaking, because I don't watch the news much. People assumed though that it was good, because we were so desperate and thought it couldn't get any worse. Obviously that isn't true. We haven't hit the bottom of the barrel quite yet, but we're cutting it close.
Isn't Congress supposed to keep the President in check? Cuz, unless my history book is wrong, The legislative, executive and judicial branch are supposed to keep each other in check. What kind of Congress would pass something that they didn't even read? Just because he's black doesn't mean he's going to jump you. Oops, that was racist. I don't care though, it's true. We can blame Congress for not reading the bill, Obama for passing it (has he yet?) and the American people for voting for him. OR, we can try to fix this whole mess. The Government is supposed to be 'by the people for the people'. We are supposed to rule the Government, aren't we? If so, that means we can fix it, and it might have to be my generation to do it. (I'm 14, so by 2012, I can vote.)
Well.. we wont have to worry about it then. The Mayans, Nostradamus, and several other sources say the world will end on December 21 2012.. I just hope that's a Monday morning before 9am
...out of the mouths of babes... my generation will help you fix it, I am 36 and my son is 13 - you made some wonderful points.. and my son is known for that too
Well play safe.. it would be a shame to have all your Christmas shopping done and then have the world end four days before Christmas. Glad your mom got a job..and glad there are young people like you to watch all this debacle unfold so when you're running things it won't be like this.
Bubble.....14? I am so impressed with your outlook and your maturity and your insight.....the world is looking better already for it.....and your son also Lori.
:3 Thank you.
edit: I have a question, do any of you think that it is odd that when Obama messed up the inauguration thing, you know, when he was sworn in? Do you think its a bit odd that when they redid it privately, that he did not use the Bible? I know most aren't religious, I'm not sure since I don't know any of you, but that just doesn't seem right to me.
I honestly have no idea. The only reason I know is because I watch Channel 1 in the mornings at school. I'm sure they must have a video somewhere, so I'm going to look for it.
"Wow"....All this talk about Obama and politics and the economy just "boggles" my mind. I don't know anything about politics....and don't really want to. I guess I should watch the "News" more often to see what all is happening in the world. I don't think Obama has really been in "Office" long enough to have made the country's situation any worse than it is. He "inheritated" this country's present "mess".....and he says that he will straighten things out. Maybe if everyone just gives him a chance to do something about it.....things will start to change for the better. It certainly can't get any worse. I don't hate the "rich", and I don't hate the "poor"....I don't hate anybody. I think everyone is equal. I've known so many "hardships" thruout my lifetime.....and I never sat around complaining about my situations....I just lived one day at a time. I've been a single mom too....with a kid to raise. I worked as a nurse's aide in a hospital back in the "70's".....and I would get paid every two weeks, and my paycheck was never over a hundred dollars. I "cleared about $97.00 every two weeks.....and I had to pay rent out of that, and pay the electric and gas bill, and buy groceries, and other stuff. I wasn't gertting any child support either. Soooooo....I know what "Life in the hard times" was all about.
I wasn't getting any help from my parents either. But.....I survived....and life goes on. So when I see what all is happening in the world today.....I don't really get involved......there's nothing I can do about the situation anyway......so I just hope and pray that the people who are running our government will eventually "straighten things out". I'm just hoping and praying that President Obama will do what he promised to do....and "change" things for the better. I really don't know how things can get much worse than it already is. "Enuff said"....all of this talk just "boggles" my mind.
can you please stop saying bad stuff about him? sometime you will just have to accept he is our president. some people like him, some don't. lets hope he will do what he promised, and just accept the fact he is president. All of your unkind words to him will not help anyone!! please dont be mad at me, i just wish you would stop because he isnt an asshole. i mean if you support mccain, i think palin is an asshole compared to him but we wont get into that, just please be a little kinder!! oh and you can really draw nice obama.
drawn in 47 min
addendum after reading Qt's comment:
We could go back and back and back, because what President Bush took over was Clinton's mess...etc.
I don't want to see anyone starving. But, you know what, this is still America...and if people HAVE made themselves wealthy, no matter how wealthy, who are we to penalize their success? This is not a socialistic country where everyone is on some equal playing field. If those that are NOT doing well would show a bit of initiative, they could find themselves in much better economic circumstances than they are in now. For example, I, too was a single mom, raised my son by myself...but ALSO, got my Bachelor's degree by working hard at 2 jobs while I raised my son. That's just one example that there is no excuse for justing sitting there, idly by, beating on the rich and remaining 'poor me.'
I know the solution: Everyone chill, and quit taking sides and pointing fingers and realize that what goes around comes around.
I'm so tired right now.
The true "have vs have-not" situation is where there is super rich of the few and abject poverty of the many and nothing in between and no opportunity for the poor to move out of poverty. In America we have the super rich and we have poverty, but we also have a continuum in between. In addition, anyone in American can become rich, including the dodo-head living in a single-wide trailer with only a 3rd grade education by buying lotto tickets with the weekly purchase of cigarettes.
I don't hate the rich, even though I am not one. I understand that the rich help to keep our economy going and everyone's standard of living higher. We all ride the coat tails of the rich, including the poor. In addition, the rich contribute a lot of money to charity, research, and, yes, even to help the poor.
The budding socialists in American don't understand that socialism will not bring the poor up to your level, it will bring you down to their level. Are you willing to give up your standard of living? I'm not.
On the other hand, my daughter is in her second year teaching in AZ and needs a second job...waitressing, just to make ends meet and she is single and has a roommate in her appartment. She is struggling to pay off her college loans. She works her butt off. These are the things that do not make sense to me....and people who put a company into the ground are getting one million dollar bonuses??? Go figure.
Athletes and movie stars and CEO's are way over paid, in my humble opinion. I just think that a little evening out of the wealth would not be a bad thing.
PS....I would surmize that my familly is in the middle to upper middle income level, and I am not complaining about our situation, and I do not HATE the rich. I too have everything I could ever need or want, aside from a three carat diamond or two. (just a little humour there).
In America, poor people have the same opportunities as everyone else, and education is a key factor in helping them better their situation, so I am all for improving education for the poor.
(I'm not going in to the politics aspect of this discussion, I know little to nothing about US politics).
I will say this on politics Jpjp, being more social will not lower your standards of living! We here in the Netherlands have a system where everybody gets healthcare, no matter what. And they do not have to go to rediculous busy "free" clinics. The better off do not notice this that much. As a person with a job that pays quite well, I'm happy to contribute a portion of my salary to benefits. Why? Because someday it might be you needing it! In fact, that what I pay monthly through taxes over my salaries is maybe 4% that goes to social stuff.
(Edited, it first said, "will lower your standards", it was late, it had to say and it does so now, "will not lower your standards of living")
Do you understand this QT? Just in case, I'll translate it for you. Obama's stimulus package has language in it specifically stating that these guys should and will get those bonuses. Did you get that? OBAMA'S plan, his package authorized the fucking bonuses!!! Now that fucking prick wants to hold private citizens the ones who got a bonus) up before the masses and burn them at the stake in order to fuel the "rich people are greedy and bad" agenda. And by the way, the total of those bonuses is less than 1% of the money AIG received from the bail out. Less than 1%. If you didn't know that, you would think that these guys took a big ole chunk of the bail out money. Nope, a tiny fraction. AND IT WAS PART OF THE LANGUAGE OF THE GOD DAMN STIMULUS BILL THAT THEY GET THE BONUSES!!!!!
edit: Oh and another thing, I am sick and tired of you saying Bush made this mess. The Clinton administration pressured Fanny And Freddy to give those loans to people that didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of paying them back and that's where all this shit began, OK? Not the Bush administration.
As for Obama, all I can really say is, we are getting the change he so graciously promised, but did you ever notice how he never said what kind of change? I didn't, but maybe that's my age speaking, because I don't watch the news much. People assumed though that it was good, because we were so desperate and thought it couldn't get any worse. Obviously that isn't true. We haven't hit the bottom of the barrel quite yet, but we're cutting it close.
Isn't Congress supposed to keep the President in check? Cuz, unless my history book is wrong, The legislative, executive and judicial branch are supposed to keep each other in check. What kind of Congress would pass something that they didn't even read? Just because he's black doesn't mean he's going to jump you. Oops, that was racist. I don't care though, it's true. We can blame Congress for not reading the bill, Obama for passing it (has he yet?) and the American people for voting for him. OR, we can try to fix this whole mess. The Government is supposed to be 'by the people for the people'. We are supposed to rule the Government, aren't we? If so, that means we can fix it, and it might have to be my generation to do it. (I'm 14, so by 2012, I can vote.)
edit: I have a question, do any of you think that it is odd that when Obama messed up the inauguration thing, you know, when he was sworn in? Do you think its a bit odd that when they redid it privately, that he did not use the Bible? I know most aren't religious, I'm not sure since I don't know any of you, but that just doesn't seem right to me.
What was the deal with the red box Michelle was holding during the inauguration?
I wasn't getting any help from my parents either. But.....I survived....and life goes on. So when I see what all is happening in the world today.....I don't really get involved......there's nothing I can do about the situation anyway......so I just hope and pray that the people who are running our government will eventually "straighten things out". I'm just hoping and praying that President Obama will do what he promised to do....and "change" things for the better. I really don't know how things can get much worse than it already is. "Enuff said"....all of this talk just "boggles" my mind.
yes i think it would be bitch
Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
bug??? funny Cello :)
Richard Nixon
37th president of US (1969 - 1974)